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Arturo Macias's avatar

I completely disagree: their brains are very simple neural networks, and their degree of consciousness is in the same range as electronic devices.

https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/3nLDxEhJwqBEtgwJc/arthropod-non-sentience

All arguments based on behavioral similarity only proof we all come from evolution: "we are neural networks trained by natural selection. We avoid destruction and pursue reproduction, and we are both effective and desperate in both goals. The (Darwinian) reinforcement learning process that has led to our behavior imply strong rewards and penalties and being products of the same process (animal kingdom evolution), external similarity is inevitable. But to turn the penalty in the utility function of a neural network into pain you need the neural network to produce a conscious self. Pain is penalty to a conscious self. Philosophers know that philosophical zombies are conceivable, and external similarity is far from enough to guarantee noumenal equivalence."

Now, regarding how much information is integrated, supperativity implies that the ammount of resources devoted to the shrimp shall be propotional to their number, but (at most!) to their brain mass:

"As a rule, measures of information integration are supper additive (that is, complexity of two neural networks that connect among themselves is far bigger than the sum of the original networks), so neuron count ratios (Shrimp=0.01% of human) are likely to underestimate differences in consciousness. The ethical consequence of supper additivity is that ceteris paribus a given pool of resources shall be allocated in proportion not to the number of subjects but (at most!) to the number of neurons. "

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Rajesh Kasturirangan's avatar

India, sadly, is terrible when it comes to the welfare of aquatic creatures, both fish and crustaceans. And these farms are being promoted as alternative sources of income because of pressure on agricultural land and decreasing sizes of land holdings. But, like in so much else, the underlying causes are to do with the globalization of food systems. I visited a prawn processing plant in Odisha at the end of 2023 and was surprised to find out how prawns are cultivated in South India, shipped to Odisha (with all the welfare concerns you mention) a few hundred KM north to Odisha, where they are processed by women from Bangladesh, then shipped once again to Vietnam or the Middle East where they are processed further and then go god knows where. Ultimately, of course, all of this is driven by first-world consumption patterns. Every gathering I attend in the West has shrimp served alongside cocktails. While changing welfare practices is crucial, it's even more important to change the Western palate.

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